Different lpi and angles to multiple objects in one layout.

[G***@adobeforums.com]

Anyone know if there is a plug-in for Illustrator CS that allows you to apply different lpi and dot shapes/angles to different objects in the same file. Currently we open the file up in Freehand 8 and do it, but I would love to see this capability in future versions of Illustrator. I don't want to keep buying Freehand just for this feature. Will future versions of Illustrator ever have this abiltity?

[Dee Holmes]

I don't have AICS but in AI10 we went to separation setup to select our ppd and colors and line screen.

I hope it's not too much different for you.

[J***@adobeforums.com]

He/she means different angles on the same color plate from one object to the next.

I don't think Illy can do it, but Freehand can provided you print to the right type of printer.

A kludgy workaround is to screen all your images in Photoshop bi-level bitmap mode at the angles you want, then put them together in a layout.

[D***@adobeforums.com]

Wade? Can you set two rectangles, each filled with a different screen, let's say, both in the same document, to two different lpi settings in the AICS Print dialog? That's what they're saying FreeHand can do (if the RIP doesn't override the FH settings).

[W***@adobeforums.com]

What are you guys talking about of course you can in AI CS, you're not going to try to compare FH abilities to print to AI CS are you.

File>Print there you go choose a postscript printer or Adobe Postscript or Adobe PDF
as your printer and select any ppd you desire choose Host Based Separation or IN RIP Separation if you have a printer that support's Device N then in the output settings click where it says the line screen angle to change the angle and if you click the the dot shape that will become a drop down menu where it says line screen you can change the lines per inch. Then you can also flip through the rest of…oh, man why don't you look around and read the help files.

[S***@adobeforums.com]

you're not going to try to compare FH abilities to print to AI CS are
you.




I haven't used CS enough to compare, but for all versions prior to CS, that would put FreeHand at a significant advantage (just about its only one).

[W***@adobeforums.com]

And why would you do this at the output stage? I don't think you guys have your hats on straight! Think about it. Your talking about creating artwork and a printing feature.

You can do it in Photoshop.

[J***@adobeforums.com]

Wade:

I'm not sure I understand why the average person would want to do this.

Unless one wanted to demonstrate what differing dot angles look like in a single color...

I actually had the need for this once when I was making a color-key wheel, as a rough tool in selecting CMYK builds.

Each of the 4 plates had 21 patches 0%...5%...10% and up to 100%, and these patches were arranged in a circle.

The center of each color-key circle had a round hole, and each plate rotated so you could line up every conceivable CMYK build given the increments. 21 to the 4th power... granted LOTS of shades of black.

Anyway the trick there was to avoid a moire no matter what patch was on top of what other patch. That meant that the 4 standard angles themselves had to rotate within each patch as you traveled around the circle. For example if you looked at all the patches on the yellow plate all of the 90 degree dots would be lined up roughly with the central rotation point.

So each color plate had 19 different screen angles on it.

That's why I needed this once... I can't imagine why the average designer would want this feature.

I my mind there is no possible need, unless the dots themselves are coarse enough to become design elements... in which case to make the dots someway, you don't set an instruction for a printer to execute. So I'm with you on that one.

[W***@adobeforums.com]

I could see the need to make different line screens maybe and to assign them perhaps to individual shapes but should this be done by the designer or the prepress professional knowing their equipment better than probably the designer.

This has been the are where I come to odds with John Kallios for instance how much control should the designer have and how much should the prepress person be responsible for as the argument of who should know what and when should they know it.

"unless the dots are coarse enough to become design elements"
Exactly what I think, perhaps though it could be a plug in for professionals like John Kallios who are far more in tune than probably any designer to the nuances required to make such requirements work well on press.

Although I like the idea of the coarse thing become something you can more readily do in AI CS or FH or both. Perhaps you can do it in FH more readily I am not too familiar with FH.

[D***@adobeforums.com]

First, the question was whether Gratton is "trying to compare the print capabilities of FH and AICS?" The answer is yes, and FH in fact has a feature that AICS doesn't. So even if Gratton obeyed the "oh, man why don't you look around and read the help files." directive, he wouldn't find this feature in AICS.

Second, the question is whether this feature is even remotely worthwhile (that's a different question). I used FreeHand for years and never once used it. But I'm sure Gratton isn't asking the question gratuitously. Even if he/she's misguided in wanting it, the simple answer is, it won't be found in AICS.

Third, the observation is made that this feature would be FH's only advantage over AICS. Those intimately familiar with FH would probably disagree... maybe even for good reason. Not sure what the point of the comparison is though.

[W***@adobeforums.com]

Doug

The Forum is exactly that a forum and the question, inquiries and statements are open to discussion, debate and speculation.

Gratton asked a specific question which lead me to believe that the question may have needed clarification as to why are you doing this and would they be correct in wanting to do this in the first place.

BTW I believe that you could at one time set the resolution of individual objects in earlier versions of AI and that has been change. So it may have existed but does not now. I myself am not familiar with that earlier feature as I never had use for it as I only know about from the postings of others. I could be wrong about this though.

[J***@adobeforums.com]

"...oh, man why don't you look around and read the help files."

The subject is about OBJECT LEVEL halftone angles and rulings, Wade.

"I used FreeHand for years and never once used it. But I'm sure Gratton isn't asking the question gratuitously. Even if he/she's misguided in wanting it, the simple answer is, it won't be found in AICS."

The object level halftone palette has been in FH for as long as I can remember. No, it's not something I use every day (you know--kinda like Lens Flare and). But I've used it many times for many things, ranging from setting up test files to determine the rulings which a particular silkscreen printer can hold, to object-specific halftone effects in artwork (Think about it--the ability to assign a Line halftone effect to a particular grayscale image in brochure work), to controling desired angles and rulings for specific elements in projects at flexography shops. It's especially useful for spot-color projects for a number of reasons.

"Third, the observation is made that this feature would be FH's only advantage over AICS. Those intimately familiar with FH would probably disagree... maybe even for good reason. Not sure what the point of the comparison is though."

I'm not sure either. (But I have my suspicions.) But just for the record, these come immediately to mind:

Blends between spot colors.
Perspective grids.
Join multiple paths at once.
Retract/extend multiple handles at once.
Spit multiple points at once.
PowerDuplication of sub-selected points.
Align any combination of multiple points and objects.
Multiple custom rulers in one document.
Primitives with live handles (arcs, corner radii, etc.)
Live on-object grad controls.
A useful auto trace tool.
Graphic Find & Replace.

But of course, some here would simply dismiss these features, because they've "never needed them" (because they've never had access to them), and that, my friends, is a large part of the reason we settle so easily for mediocre softwares.

And yes, I can just as easily throw together a list favoring AI. I just get a bit weary of AI devotees automatically and off-handedly dissing perfectly sensible features a program named "Illustrator" would do well to include.

JET

[J***@adobeforums.com]

Hey, Illustrator also has the ability for object based halftone, lpi, dot shape function for years.

Well, sort of…errr…sort of did anyway.

It was done through generation of a rider file which needed to be manually loaded in the plugins folder. Also the rider preferences needed to be generated and saved in the plugins folder. Once this was done, any file saved while that preference file was in the plugin folder would have the rider included. To go back to normal that preference would either need to be deleted or moved from the plugin folder.

So, it was not object based, it applied to the whole Illustrator file. Also, these files could NOT be linked in other ai files so having multiple lpis within one document from native Illustrator elements does not exist.

Oh, and it is no longer available with Illustrator CS.

So, since I am a "AI devotee";) Illustrators method must be vastly superior to Freehands. (even though I have no first hand experience with Freehand above 7. Yes, 7. And that experience is abismally small. I just do not receive FH files at work and never had a need to purchase for home. As soon as FH files comes in, I will purchase imeadiatly for work and I am confident I could pick it up quickly.)

So regarding this list…

Blends between spot colors.
Perspective grids.
Join multiple paths at once.
Retract/extend multiple handles at once.
Spit multiple points at once.
PowerDuplication of sub-selected points.
Align any combination of multiple points and objects.
Multiple custom rulers in one document.
Primitives with live handles (arcs, corner radii, etc.)
Live on-object grad controls.
A useful auto trace tool.
Graphic Find & Replace.

My fingers are covering my eyes, my thumbs are plugging up my ears and I am chanting "Na, Na, Na, Na…"

Because, if I am ignorant of other processes, then I never do need them. :)

[W***@adobeforums.com]

james you speak with fork tongue. Remember that one of the biggest feature request on the AI Forum is "no bloat" and I believe, correct if I am wrong, that you are one of those who may have chimed in as being in favor of this. It would make no sense just to have features that another program, one that you happen to use, even if it is a feature that is seldom if at all used just to keep up with the Jones!

So let's go back to the original post. Thankfully you can't do it in AI you can in FH.

Us AI users will just have to envy those of you who have FH, especially in this case.

Have a great day! BTW if I ever had need for FH I would by it in a Flash! Get it? Flash!

[Dee Holmes]

I remember a few years ago, I had a file that was outputting 2 different lpi's in a file.

It drove me nuts for hours until I reopened the link in Photoshop and resaved it. They had halftone link tranfer checked. So the parts of art from AI were coming out at 110 lpi like wanted but that link kept coming out 65 lpi.

I learned from that what one little check box can do to you.

[J***@adobeforums.com]

"Have a great day! BTW if I ever had need for FH I would by it in a Flash! Get it? Flash!"

Amazing. Wade's keyboard DOES have functioning punctuation keys. (They must just be terribly intermittent.)

;-)

JET

[W***@adobeforums.com]

James, you really know how to hurt a guy!

I guess there is no mercy here!